Tell the dead children

Published on October 16, 2004 By d3adz0mbie In International

Think Saddam was contained? Think he wasn't a terrorist? Do you think, in any fashion, that the Iraq war was a mistake?

More Iraqi mass graves
"The head of the unit, Greg Kehoe, who has seen more than his share of horrors in places such as the Balkans, couldn’t believe what he saw.
"I’ve never seen women and children executed, defenseless people executed in this fashion," he said. "I mean, you look at a young woman holding her 2-year-old child with a gunshot wound to the back of the head. I can’t find any reason to justify that."
When I saw the images I could only think back to Hilla, a town south of Baghdad where I went in the spring of 2003, just after the fall of Saddam. A mass grave of Iraqi Shiites was discovered there.
I will never forget it for as long as I live. Thousands of bodies. Thousands of families swarming over piles of clothing and flesh. Earth-moving equipment digging through the raw humanity. Digging up the past."

Tell the dead children "wrong war, wrong time". Tell the dead mothers "blood for oil". Tell the sons, daughters and fathers of the dead that removing Saddam was a "colossal failure of judgment."

Go ahead, I dare you.

Comments (Page 2)

Myrrander

on Oct 16, 2004

Yeah, I don't think I know a soldier in Iraq or Afghanistan right now under 21 years of age. Hardly kids. Furthermore Voodoostation -- you support an article that laments the loss of Iraqis and reprimand me for lamenting the loss of Americans. Something doesn't smell right.

Spc Nobody Special

on Oct 16, 2004

we punish a mass murderer by bombing the very people he used to murder

ummmm......did he used to kill terrorists? Let's see, I'm a soldier, have I killed or help kill any innocents lately, ummmm, nope.

Have I helped stop killings, car bombings, and arms dealing? Yeah. Hmmm. Don't remember wading through a sea of the blood of women and children. Maybe I was sleepkilling again. Oh well........

Spc Nobody Special

on Oct 16, 2004

P.S. When you criticize what we do in Iraq, you criticize me, and the people I work with. Not acting and allowing others to die in mass quantities to take no risks, and to keep your hands clean, avoid the problem is the act of a moral coward.

Innocents die, I admit that, but we go to great extremes to save life wherever possible, even at the cost of our own. American soldiers are not kids, not innocents, blindly following orders with no idea of the risks involved. We make the choice, if some of us die, we die helping others.

voodoostation

on Oct 16, 2004

Myrrander, you are the reason why I hate civilians. You have absolutely no foresight. All you believe is the propaganda. You believe the President lied. Shame on you. If you only had a brain. Try this. I hate you and when I get a chance I'll beat your brains in. Now, are you going to wait for me to swing, or will you punch me right in my nose and make me go running home with my head in my hands?
I lament the loss of Iraqis. The graves found were conceived and dug under the instruction of a murderer. I also lament the loss of our soldiers and every other country's soldiers on our side of this fight. Yours was not a lament, Myrrander, yours was a selfish complaint. You want to call Arlington Cemetary a "mass grave". You have absolutely no right to do so. You sicken me. Your gutless statements only serve to fuel the divisiveness of this nation.
You better check the average age of soldiers serving in the military. You may be surprised. i joined at 17. The guys (and girls) I served with were all about the same age. So don't give me that B.S.

Grim Xiozan

on Oct 16, 2004

Well you know Spc NS some people have been there in their dreams or through television.

While others like you have been there in person.

Am I supposed to take the word of someone who has not been there over someone who has? How about we let the soldiers over there right now talk their peace and I think Lee would know the thoughts of a lot of soldiers who are going over there, along with our (JU Community) in-house Army/Navy/Marines/Air Force who have been over there.

So, who is right? The soldier in (or has been to) Iraq or the civilian in the United States?

As for myself, I will always side with the soldier over the civilian and I am willing to suffer torture eternal for it!

- Former US Army - Active Duty: SPC Stebbins
"Grimollow Xe!" Motto of the US Army Grimantry

Texas Wahine

on Oct 16, 2004

When you criticize what we do in Iraq, you criticize me, and the people I work with. Not acting and allowing others to die in mass quantities to take no risks, and to keep your hands clean, avoid the problem is the act of a moral coward.

I have to disagree with that. I don't think we should be policing the world, and while our soldiers have accomplished some great things in Iraq, it doesn't change the fact, in my mind, that the war in Iraq is wrong. Soldiers don't make the policy. It's not their fault. I have no criticisms for you or your service to our country . . . I feel gratitude that you are willing to do the work and make the sacrifices for the benefit of myself and my children. I DO have criticism for the man calling the shots.

voodoostation

on Oct 16, 2004

You have some valid point, Tex. Soldiers are not policemen. That being said, we do have a responsibility to clean up the country and train the country's militia to be self sufficient. There are books written on war, but I've yet to read of a war that was textbook perfect. I do not understand how any human being, possessed with a functioning brain can believe a war that removed a man who massacred his own country men and women and children on a whim is wrong. Do you have no sense of responsibility to your fellow man? Are you that self absorbed as to not care about life?
My only criticism of the progression of the war is that we have not doused these insurgents in pig's blood and levelled the mosques these cowards hide in before they can blow up any more innocents.

Texas Wahine

on Oct 16, 2004

I do not understand how any human being, possessed with a functioning brain can believe a war that removed a man who massacred his own country men and women and children on a whim is wrong. Do you have no sense of responsibility to your fellow man? Are you that self absorbed as to not care about life?

Wow. Kinda harsh considering that you don't know me . . .

voodoostation

on Oct 16, 2004

I can still judge by the words you write.

Texas Wahine

on Oct 16, 2004

Actually, you know me from a couple paragraphs on this thread. Far from comprehensive understanding of my heart and my motivations. To answer your questions . . .

I do not understand how any human being, possessed with a functioning brain can believe a war that removed a man who massacred his own country men and women and children on a whim is wrong.

I think it is good that Saddam is gone, but look at the cost. How do we decide when to intercede? There are atrocities being committed all over the world, and we do not have the capability to resolve them all. Maybe I am selfish, but I believe in putting the US first.

Do you have no sense of responsibility to your fellow man?

Yes I do. Do I need to provide anecdotes to prove this to you or would you like to take my word?

Are you that self absorbed as to not care about life?

Can you be more specific with that question? Who's life do you not think I care about?

voodoostation

on Oct 16, 2004

I think caring about life is pretty darn specific. It means life, yours, your neighbors, your countrymen's, your fellow human's. You speak of the cost, I assume our cost, but look at the cost to the Iraqis who couldn't defend themselves against a sadist, a megalomaniac, a murderer, a butcherer. Selfish. That is your generation. You have no room in your heart, mind, soul, for compassion, responsibility, selflessness. You have no comprehension for the value of human life, unless it is yours. Nothing in life is free. Ever.

Define soldier. I would like to know your definition. Because you apparently don't know what it means to them.

Texas Wahine

on Oct 16, 2004

You speak of the cost, I assume our cost, but look at the cost to the Iraqis who couldn't defend themselves against a sadist, a megalomaniac, a murderer, a butcherer.

Do you think that Iraq is a safer and happier place for Iraqis at large now? Some things are better now, but many things are worse. The fact is many, many innocent Iraqi civilians have lost their lives in this war. Yes, we do our best to avoid civilian casualties, but we are unable to eliminate mistakes and accidents in war. That's the nature of the beast. The civilian death count is over 3, 200 ( Link ). Innocent loss of life continues, though now it is unintentional rather than intentional. Is that an improvement? In addition to that, we now have American loss of life.

You have no room in your heart, mind, soul, for compassion, responsibility, selflessness.

You are far overstepping here. When you attack me personally, you degrade not only me, as you intend, but also yourself. Please refrain from personal attacks on my character.

Nothing in life is free. Ever.

True.

Define soldier. I would like to know your definition.

There's my definition.

drmiler

on Oct 16, 2004

Reply #1 By: Myrrander - 10/16/2004 2:37:19 PM
yup, it kicks ass that we punish a mass murderer by bombing the very people he used to murder

Since when? With the weapons we used very few civilian casualties have occured! Most of the civilian casualites occured like the ones that got in the way of exploding the "Bradley". Other than those kind are the poor people who get caught in the middle of a firefight.

drmiler

on Oct 16, 2004

Reply #8 By: Deference - 10/16/2004 3:14:35 PM
...I just have to add this... it's amazing how effective the Bush campaign's rhetoric has been in seizing American hearts and minds with patriotic / religious snake oil. Bush feels just like I do! Oh, he does? You believe that...that's what's sad. I like how people think Bush is just so deeply spiritual when his background is lacking in any religious substance aside a "I'm born again! Amen!" All the while amidst the third debate, Kerry is pulling out scripture quotes and Bush can barely muster (or is that bluster) a "God Bless America."

Talk about religous "snake oil". Look right at Kerry. He's the one with no religious substance!

dabe

on Oct 16, 2004

Myrrander, do you ever feel like you'd rather have a root canal than debate this stuff? I sure do.
I have to say, JU is the most vicious, arrogant blog site I've ever come across. I don't understand it. I don't understand the hatred and venom that spews forth against democrats from these guys. It's sick.
It's also very sad.

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