I am married, and CrispE has a good point.

Reply #16 By: blogic - 10/14/2004 11:57:22 AM I am married, and CrispE has a good point.

You don''t know as much as you would like people to believe. Having been married 3 times this last one has been for 10 years now has taught me one thing. NEVER argue with a woman, you WILL NOT win. And that is *exactly* what the VP was doing. Stopping an arguement *before* it got started.

Karma Girl:

No and my wife and I have the same position. What is flip flopping is saying he supports the President fully and completely, then when his wife says she is not for the amendment, supports state's rights to choose their own laws, then he says he supports that position. Then he adds, of course, I also support the President. That is two faced and Politically Correct.

drmiler:

I have been married for 31 years to the same woman, one daughter, currently 25, married 4 years, an Occupational Therapist. I have never smoked or done drugs, have about 2 beers a year and champagne on New Year's Eve. I sing in the Church Praise Band and do sermons in my Baptist Church once every 6 weeks.

My wife and I disagree on many things. Disagreeing is ok. I would never change my position because my wife held a contrary position and neither would she. There is a "greater understanding" that keeps good marriages strong. It is not "we must keep peace in the marriage even though we disagree." It is "we will love and respect one another for caring enough to think for one's self."

One thing about the debate I liked was the question of how it was being married to a strong woman. I liked that question because it really shows that
behind every sucessful man is a strong woman.

This is what the southern idiots look at though. They hate gays just like Bush and if/when they hear that his VP has a gay daughter they start to rethink their vote. It also points out that the Bush/Cheney team are hypocritical in their suppression of gay rights. If your son or daughter were gay wouldn't you like them to marry some day or at least have the right to visit their partner when they're in the hospital?

landen81: I demand an apology or you will be blocked from ever commenting on my blog again. Here's why:
I was born and raised in Texas. I live 20minutes north of Houston, Texas. I am, in every sense of the word, 'Southern'.
I also have strong judeo-christian beliefs, have been married for almost 9 years and could be considered the average Southern white male demographic.

Growing up, Ive had many male friends that were gay or straight, it never mattered to me, as we respected each others right to live free. My wife and I currently have a VERY good friend who is gay and HIV positive. He talks to us about the hardships of being HIV positive, the strains it places on his relationships and his family, and we also talk about a great many other things from politics (he supports Bush, BTW) to art and history and movies... anything you could think of. See, his being gay is far down on our list of his traits; he's a smart guy, hes very talented artistically, he is funny and fun to be around...his sexuality and his disease is so far down on our list of what makes him "him" to us it only matters in that it a topic that effects him personally.

It is ignorant for anyone to say southerners want to supress gay rights. There is bias ALL OVER THE WORLD against race, religion, sexuality and political beliefs. As a follower of Christs teachings I do not criticize our friend for being gay... nobody lives a perfect life, and I will not tear down someone else for anything they do in their own personal life. I would fight for his rights as a human being to have the same benefits in all areas of his life that I have. I am no better or no less than he is, we are both human beings, each unique, both free in these United States.

And one last thing - our friend says he doesn't want gay marriage. He figures if 50% of straight people cant get marriage right, why the hell should gays even want it?.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A29862-2004Aug24.html?nav=rss_politics

This article explains that whole thing a bit more in detail.  For the last 4 years Cheney has said that he personally thinks that gay marriage rights should be left up to the State.  However, when State judges seemed to be making their own law around gay marriage, that is when he supported Bush when he started trying to protect marriage on a Federal level.  Just because Cheney doesn't personal believe something doesn't mean he can't support something that is generally felt to be good for the nation.  If more politicians put the general population ahead of themselves as Cheney has been able to do, then our country would be a lot better off.

Do you call this flip-flopping by Kerry?:
1994: "The right thing to do is to treat abortions as exactly what they are--a medical procedure that any doctor is free to provide and any pregnant woman free to obtain."

2004: " I oppose abortion, personally. I don't like abortion. I believe that life does start at conception."

OCtober 2004: "I believe that choice (on abortion) is a woman's choice"

Can somebody not personally have an different opinion than what they uphold professionally?

To d3adz0mbie, I am very sorry and I did not mean to overgeneralize everyone in the south as being an idiot. However, from my own personal experience, many of the Southern Baptists I've met still refer to African Americans as niggers and are vastly homophobic. When asked why they hate them, they respond "Well that's the way the good Lord intended."

I also have many gay friends some of which say they wouldn't even want to marry if they could. However they felt personally attacked by Bush's push to make gay marriage illegal.

But still, the harsh labeling will continue. Bush will continue to call Kerry a Flip-Flopper w/a Trial Lawyer for a VP and Cheney will continue to be linked to Halliburton with a lesbian daughter.

Reply #19 By: CrispE - 10/14/2004 12:32:34 PM drmiler: I have been married for 31 years to the same woman, one daughter, currently 25, married 4 years, an Occupational Therapist. I have never smoked or done drugs, have about 2 beers a year and champagne on New Year's Eve. I sing in the Church Praise Band and do sermons in my Baptist Church once every 6 weeks. My wife and I disagree on many things. Disagreeing is ok. I would never change my position because my wife held a contrary position and neither would she. There is a "greater understanding" that keeps good marriages strong. It is not "we must keep peace in the marriage even though we disagree." It is "we will love and respect one another for caring enough to think for one's self."

You obviously missed my entire point which was "don't *argue* with a woman, you WON't win" If you think that this is complete BS, try getting in an arguement with your wife and see just who comes out on top. Or better yet ask some of the other married guys on this forum what they think about it. You just may have been the *lucky* one. BTW I said argue NOT disagree! There *is* a difference. One last question just *what* does drinking or smoking or doing drugs have to do with what were talking about?

You are blowing this out of the freaking water over Cheney's Daughter, seriously it will cost Kerry because he brought up somebody's personal life in the middle of a NATION-WIDE Televised Debate that simply did not belong in his speech(especially if Alan Colmes cannot defend that action).

I wonder now, do I have to compete with Cheney's Daughter when I try and go for one of the Bush Twins?

- Grim X

Reply #8 By: CrispE - 10/14/2004 10:51:37 AM d3adzOmbie: Cheney's daughter's sexual preference first came up in 2000 in the first election campaign. It wasn't the Democrats who brought it up here.

So this makes her sexual prefrences fair game? BS!!! The remark last night was totally uncalled for. And from what I've read so far today (here and other sites) I'm not the only one who thinks so.

More from Republican Andrew Sullivan:

All Kerry did was invoke the veep's daughter to point out that obviously homosexuality isn't a choice, in any meaningful sense. The only way you can believe that citing Mary Cheney amounts to "victimization" is if you believe someone's sexual orientation is something shameful. Well, it isn't. What's revealing is that this truly does expose the homophobia of so many - even in the mildest "we'll-tolerate-you-but-shut-up-and-don't-complain" form. Couldn't it just be that Kerry thinks of gay people as human beings like straight people - and mentioning their lives is not something we should shrink from? Isn't that the simplest interpretation? In many speeches on marriage rights, I cite Mary Cheney. Why? Because it exposes the rank hypocrisy of people like president Bush and Dick and Lynne Cheney who don't believe gays are anti-family demons but want to win the votes of people who do. I'm not outing any gay person. I'm outing the double standards of straight ones. They've had it every which way for decades, when gay people were invisible. Now they have to choose.

Reply #28 By: blogic - 10/14/2004 2:51:00 PM More from Republican Andrew Sullivan: All Kerry did was invoke the veep's daughter to point out that obviously homosexuality isn't a choice, in any meaningful sense.

I don't care how you slice this up. It *still* did not belong on a *nationally* televised debate.

Well you know somebody's logic will assert that it did belong and if you believe it did not belong you must be a homophobe.

Though how could one be a homophobe when an Uncle of his is Homosexual and bringing his boyfriend with him for this man's mother's birthday?

Illogic logic.

Somebody's personal life has no place in a debate because it does not belong there period UNLESS it is the personal life of one of the debaters.

- 'Death Hand' Grim X